Talk:Zhen

"Pre-imperial Zhen"

Don't forget to write bits about Zhen's interaction with Alnaria, Bashime, Tameria, and Rafhazan.

"Empire of Dazhou"

Removed "the semi-agricultural and semi-pastoral people of."

In Ascalonian reference to "dynasty" and "family" in the imperial context

also some things of note, when referring to a dynasty as a family, you use 朝 (chao), but when referring to a dynasty as a time era, you use 代 (dai). so the Tian dynasty family would be the 天朝, or tian chao, while the era of the tian dynasty would be the 天代 or tian dai. --Pikabo (noted from Goy) 10:43, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Origins of the Sima Jin clan

Hmm. Mind if this Zhen family originated from the south? (I understand it is in the northern coastal region) The name doesn't sound particularly Caoyan (Mongolian). Perhaps they were disgruntled by the order of things in Ascalon. Maybe owing to unreturned favors for the new rulers. --Pikabo (talk) 10:45, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Syrixian rule of Zhen

So it was around the same time Goyanes took over Ascalon. The Zhen, a prominent aristocratic family in the fertile northern coastal regions, united the area through rapid Bismarckian politics and by treaty due to wariness over the Goyanean takeover in the south and declared the Zhen Empire. The Syrixians pressed themselves on the Zhen to counteract Goyanean influence in the region, creating an alliance that would morph into a tributary/client state relationship. The Syrixians helped the Zhen subjugate the Caoyan peoples in the northwestern steppes and set up the southeastern islands under the Empire's direct rule, as a trading post. The southeastern islands rapidly grew in importance due to this, and thus, following the 2nd NI War, Goyanes seized the islands. Due to this, the Zhen, whilst formally retaining their tributary/client relationship with Syrixia, de facto began to fall away from said relationship, gaining de facto independence after the State Reform Acts of 1870-71 and de jure independence at the eve of the Fascist Wars, which the Zhen did not wish to fight in. Since the end of the war, iirc, Zhen-Syrixian relations were becoming more active again, until Prince Meng took over, after which Pataliputra sided with Princess Shi and her State of Zhenmen. --Pikabo (noted from Syr) 10:46, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Goyanean rule of Zhenmen

so it was run under Goyanean Ascalon, which did have its own elected legislatue. it was in effect, a kingdom of Goyanes. Especially without a sovereignty referendum. So the compromise, I thought, would be autonomy. This would later become the basis of Zhenmen's current government. Perhaps, just my idea: Zhen has historically claimed Ascalon as its territory. It may have pursued this claim aggressively throughout history. Easy to lay some semblance of legitimacy since it is under foreign rule. What if Goyanes gave up Zhenmen for the future and stability of Ascalon? Zhen, in turn, would give up Ascalon.

Skandan calendar

@space andy (An/Sk/YC) Do Skandans have their own calendar?

space andy (An/Sk/YC)Today at 12:08 PM yes, actually, but it's not in use in modern skanda i should say it's not officially in use the skandan zodiac still uses it and it's often used in history books too alongside the normal dates there's been a small push to start using it again but it's not a popular movement Turtle Manta Owl Shark Snow Leopard Rat Dog Dragonfly Eel Pig/Boar Rooster Snake Dragon Elephant Tiger Water Buffalo Sea Lion Crocodile Crane/Heron Komodo (Dragon) Bat Crab Whale Fox Monkey Red Panda Spider Frog all 28 skandan zodiac animals it's the 97th cycle of the zodiac, which puts it's first usage at 696 BC if you wanna be precise it's the year of the snow leopard right now or 2716 in other words--Pikabo (noted from conversation with Andy) 04:16, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Other cities in the Road of Silver

• Mita, Bashime
• Menhe Hailasse

Population

• 148,147 (Zhenmenjing)
• 38,565,000 (Total population of Zhen if united)

Political asylum

Zhen is divided in two, but foreign policy is dictated by Zhenmen as per the National Sovereignty Declaration. Zhenmen, obviously, having its own issues of radical socialism in the other side of its DMZ, wouldn't entertain the idea. But if anyone stumbles into Mainland Zhen, they're on their own if they want to stay because no one will try to get them out once Meng has got his eye on them.--Pikabo (talk) 00:41, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Special forces

Before the revolution in 2011, Zhen had the Imperial Army Special Operations Forces. Now it has the State of Zhenmen Military Police Special Services Company. USSI-controlled Zhen has the South Iterian People's Army Special Operations Forces. Both special forces, though its existence is publicly known, further information is classified.--Pikabo (talk) 14:31, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

GJ Verve(GJV, WB opportunity)

This is GJ Verve, the Goyanean national railway's international transport operations subsidiary. They are hired to build and operate public transport systems internationally. Verve is a Gojan portmanteau of "verkere" (transport) and "veb" (web). They are currently building railways and transport systems in Prydania and Norsia. If anyone wants GJV to operate a railway, metro, or bus system in their country, just LMK and I'll be happy to help. After all, why not have the inventors of the train build your railway! GJVerve has been in operation since the 1980s, it was previously known as the GJ Transport Business Division, was had existed since the 1970s.--Pikabo (noted from Goy) 14:20, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Goy's tongue twisters

石室诗士施氏，嗜狮，誓食十狮。
施氏时时适市视狮。
十时，适十狮适市。
是时，适施氏适市。
施氏视是十狮，恃矢势，使是十狮逝世。
氏拾是十狮尸，适石室。
石室湿，氏使侍拭石室。
石室拭，施氏始试食是十狮尸。
食时，始识是十狮尸，实十石狮尸。
试释是事。

[10:10 AM]

shíshì shīshì Shī Shì, shì shī, shì shí shí shī.
Shīshì shíshí shì shì shì shī.
shí shí, shì shí shī shì shì.
shì shí, shì Shī Shì shì shì.
Shī Shì shì shì shí shī, shì shǐ shì, shǐ shì shí shī shìshì.
Shì shí shì shí shī shī, shì shíshì.
shíshì shī, Shì shǐ shì shì shíshì.
shíshì shì, Shīshì shǐ shì shí shì shí shīshī.
shí shí, shǐ shí shì shí shīshī, shí shí shí shī shī.
shì shì shì shì.

[10:10 AM]

"In a stone den there was a poet called Shi, who was a lion addict and resolved to eat ten lions.
He often went to the market to look for lions.
At ten o’clock, ten lions had just arrived at the market.
At that time, Shi had just arrived at the market.
He saw the ten lions, and using his trusty arrows caused the ten lions to die.
He took the corpses of the ten lions to the stone den.
The stone den was damp. He asked his servants to wipe it.
After the stone den was wiped, he tried to eat the ten lions.
When he ate, he realised that these ten lions were in fact ten stone lion corpses.
Try to explain this matter."

四是四。十是十，十四是十四，四十是四十，四十四是四十四。
NEW
[10:11 AM]
sì shì sì. shí shì shí, shí sì shì shí sì, sì shí shì sì shí, sì shí sì shì sì shí sì.
[10:11 AM]
Four is four. Ten is ten, fourteen is fourteen, forty is forty, forty-four is forty-four.

宝宝包包子包得不好。
bao bao bao bao zi bao de bu hao
[10:12 AM]
bao bao wraps dumplings badly

--Pikabo (noted from Goy) 02:24, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Enclaves

what's interesting is that there are enclaves of Goyanean settlement in Zhen and Ascalon, but there too are cities in Goyanes with Ascalonian enclaves (obviously not strict enclaves, but rather areas more densely Ascalonian than others). Here's the Little Ascalon neighborhood in Mydfjordstad ward in Gojannesstad. There are more little Ascalons around Gojannesstad, though the aforementioned one is the most famous.

Gojantown

Dadaoye lu (大倒爷路, lit. "big trader road")

Gojan dictionary for Zhen

• so greetings: Hej (Hey/Hello), God Morgen (Good Morning), God Naktmiddag (Good Afternoon), God Kveld (Good Evening), God Dag (Good Day)
• excuse me: unskyldigen jeg
• please: såtte
• Kreisradhass. a Radhass is a meeting place of any council, but Radhass alone usually implies a city hall. A kreisradhass is a Landkreis Hall
• what's Iteria in Gojan? Do I remove only "sk" or "nsk"? Ans. Add an “e” to the end So the ending becomes -ske
• Zhen National Socialist Party - Zensk Nasjonalsotsialistpartij
• Online - På nett
• Abonnere = Subscribe
• Anmelden = Login
• Ørtnet = Local
• Meining = Opinion
• Veld = World
• Lefridrett = Sport
• Underholdning = Entertainment
• Nyåsiste = Latest
• Anzeige = Ads
• Særskilden = Specials
• Faith and Hope League = Vertro og Håpning Bund
• Courantist Bishops' Conference of Zhen = Zensk Kourantiskløparbund
• Zensk Rikskringkasting (ZRK) = Zhen Broadcasting System
• Offentnet Fahrsertjeneste (OFT) = Public Television Service
• Tsaojan Bildningsbegåvning = Caoyan Cultural Foundation
• Tsaojan Rikskringkasting (TRK) = Caoyan Television Service
• Fahrhøre Veritas = Radio Veritas
• A homosexual union is not and can never be a marriage as properly understood and so-called = En gleikkjøn verein ikke og kann aldri være en æheskap som ordentnet vørstått og såkalt.
• news = Nyåhederen, common in standalone online news websites
• Dagsrevyen = Day's Review, equivalent of the "Times" used in many newspapers
• Præst = Priest
• Bilde = Photo
• Spokesperson = Språker/Språkerenne (alternative is if they are a woman)
• Christian Left = Messiansk Venster (MV)
• Tjenestenet = Official
• Zensk Ikkeharen Kreis (ZIHK) = Zhen Demilitarized Zone
• Nyåsisten = Latest, equivalent of breaking news

Romanization of Zhen titles (For reference)

Ranks of nobility in Goyanes: -Hertug/Hertugenne Duke/Duchess -Landgrav/Landgravenne Landgrave -Grav/Gravenne Count/Countess -Jarl/Jarlenne Earl -Herre/Frau Lord/Lady

Honorary titles for various positions within the Imperial Family: Duke/Duchess of Hofsvægr (Hertug(enne) van Hofsvægr) - The crown prince(ss) Duke/Duchess of Evænning (Hertug(enne) van Evænning) - The oldest child who isn't the crown prince(ss) Earl of Fennmark (Jarl(enne) van Fennmark) - The spouse of the Grand Emperor/Empress Count(ess) of Naderfjord (Grav(enne) van Naderfjord) - Whoever is 3rd in line to the throne, either the 2nd oldest sibling of the crown prince(ss) or the oldest child of the crown prince(ss).

The Duchess of Hofsvægr is Princess Anastasia Katherine The Duchess of Evænning is Princess Michelle The Earl of Fennmark is Empress-Consort Claire The Count of Naderfjord is Haakon van Kjellse-Tages, the cousin of Anastasia and Michelle (via Anthony's older sister)

Pre-Pikabo canon of Zhen

Important points

• Because the nature of their state is based upon its ruling dynasty? Until Europeans showed up China had no such concept as a 'nation' for thousands of years.--Pikabo (noted from Syr) 03:09, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Skandan kingdom and divine right

the only skandan dynasty to have an english title equivalent to “empire” was the later ishiyama dynasty(edited) even kamaheo is only referred to as a kingdom the heavenly part comes from the divine rights of the kōʻi, who was believed to be a demigod in most if not all cases(edited) the ishiya “empire” was only one in name, as the “emperor” (tenkō’i) had no real power and was a political move made by matsukea ishiyama to attain divine right, since he came from a lowborn background and no one would believe him if he said he was a demigod(edited) though it’s based on the mandate of heaven it’s a bit different --Pikabo (noted from Andy) 03:51, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

1200s Caoyan invasion of Skanda

also i worked it out with norsia forever ago but i think the caoyan tried invading skanda in the... 1300s? i remember having just watched mulan when i asked him about it i would think it could be an attempt to capitalize on a still weakened skanda

Mr. Pikabo (Lawston/Zhen)Today at 11:45 AM The Uulyn installed a puppet dynasty (Hatsukari) to govern the land but still nominally controlled Skanda. This occupation lasted only about a century and a half until the Skandans revolted during a period of Maru weakness, and drove out the remnants of the Uulyn. This of course led to another power vacuum, and the Ishiyama Dynasty quickly took advantage of this by sacking Kuhena. The Ishiyama Dynasty would become one of the most famous Skandan dynasties, prospering well into the 1400s before their collapse from the inside.

you referring to this^?

space andy (An/Sk/YC)Today at 11:46 AM yep and this was about the 1200s not the 1300s my bad --Pikabo (noted from conversation with Andy) 03:51, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Nors's descriptions of Zhen

• Fushui is the Zhen Capital located on the southwestern coast and its municipal heart is further inland.// Its underground transit systems are the most favored way to travel for the Zhen, but it is also the most packed on any day of the week, it is genuinely impossible not to bump at least one shoulder on the trains.--Pikabo (noted from Nors) 14:13, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
• The Zhen Empire is small and populous, due to space constraints their cities have become DENSE.--Pikabo (noted from Nors) 14:22, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
• 草岩 Cǎo yán. 震 Zhèn (Kind of sounds like chin | Pikabo: Goy corrects Nors that the character here used actually means "to shake" or "convulse"). and yeah, that's right. the Zhen/Caoyan use Traditional--Pikabo (noted from Nors) 14:25, 9 August 2020 (UTC)// simplified, which ascalon uses, could be a result of a Goyanean government program to increase literacy (Pikabo: Zhenmen probably does the same?)--Pikabo (noted from Goy) 14:25, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
• the Caoyan always had a pretty big population even back then when they were a bunch of raiding hordes. They have been pretty sexually free. when the new ways came in and made the old give in their population exploded. they are the majority population in Zhen by 68%--Pikabo (noted from Nors) 14:27, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
• (Pikabo: For future use) also for sake of ease I'm going to refer to Zhen before they were Zhen as Ascyan--Pikabo (noted from Nors) 14:28, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
• for the longest time I didn't know what to do with the Zhen, I didn't know what they are who they were. I think their long overdue introduction to Eras being a 'finding themselves' thing would be neat. Me and Andy discussed it here for a while if you wanna scroll up, it happened last night. but basically. it boils down to these options, I have the general idea I have not planned it much more than that. The socialists inspired by Skanda want better working conditions and general reforms, the democrats want a fairer market and general reforms. the democrats form inspired by and to counter protest the socialists. both are against the Imperial dynasty. seeing the shitshow about to unfold the general staff step in and install a junta. they have the options of siding with one of the reformer factions, installing the junta permanently, or forcefully putting the reformer Dynasty member on the throne. 1 of these options is a guaranteed Civil War, the other is a 50/50 --Pikabo (noted from Nors) 02:04, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Info gathered from TNP Discord server. 14 of 33 pages processed.

History of Zhen after Dazhou fell

so after Dazhou fell the combined history kinda ends until the 2nd NI war, where Goyanes seized the islands off the coast of Zhen in 1825, but they were returned when Zhen gained independence--Pikabo (noted from Goy) 10:48, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

History of Zhen under Dazhou

ah so like before Nors gave up Zhen, Zhen was part of the Dazhou empire until it's collapse. at which point it was colonized by Syrixia(?) idk if that's still a thing--Pikabo (noted from Goy) 10:51, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Origins of the Iziku people

the iziku migrated from ascalon and zhen into the northern akitu mountains, ie takashima. and from there, south into the valley of dragons (skanda proper). the iziku weren’t takashimans though. the takashimans and iziku split off from a common ancestor, the seifirians (as they’re called in non-iterian literature). the takashimans stayed in the northern akitus, the iziku left--Pikabo (noted from Andy) 10:54, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Origins of the Sinnitic people

sinnitics as a whole are native to that region. ie skandans, ascalonians, takashimans, zhen, etc, they all originated there and spread out through iteria in the years after. at one point i had said sinnitics are from out in the far east off-map but that was before we had mapped out the off-map so now i'm gonna say they're actually just native to iteria. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ i can't imagine any sinnitic nations/their players have an issue with this but if they do ping me--Pikabo (noted from Andy) 10:57, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Suchari name for Zhen

Maidha - greater Ascalonian region (often refers to the Zhen Empire)--Pikabo (noted from Syr; clarify if this is the same as the Suchari name in Zhen's IIWiki) 11:32, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Skandan name for Zhen

ㅘきたこさ위ゆ/Akitakosaiyu = Zhen "Land of Dragons in the North" (Pikabo: Incoming possible background info). The Skandan word for dragon is kosua and the ancient name of Kuheʻnai is actually Kuheʻoʻnaiʻkosua, or City of Dragons. it was named that because Ascalon is right next door and Skandans believed a lot of dragons lived in the Eastern Akitus that border that region and that eastern region of Ascalon and Zhen itself--Pikabo (noted from Skanda) 11:37, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Syrixian Empire as described between the 19th and 20th centuries

Even still, though the Empire recovered economically, administration began to be more and more strained as, during the late 19th century, nationalist identities began to emerge By the turn of the 20th century, the Zhen were de facto independent; the trade possessions in the SY were long gone, as was the Vestrugat; Predice and Yamantau had been given independence; and most of Demescia had been ceded to the newly independent Demescian state except for Hetacia proper.--Pikabo (noted from Syr) 13:35, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Loz describes a war that happens from 1704 to 1706

The Host of Valarun sweeps south and routes the Syrixian invaders who remain pushing them back into Zhen.--Pikabo (noted from Loz) 13:37, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Andy describes a Yuki RP nation's infiltration of Skandan waters

so a few years ago (Pikabo: 2010-ish following this discussion) when yukkira was where you are now they sent ships into skandan waters. skanda responded with a show of force and sent their navy to confront them. it led to a tense standoff while their politicians negotiated. skanda came out on top, yukkira withdrew, skanda got to scuttle a few of their vessels for symbolic victory. and yukkira was ejected from the iterian league.--Pikabo (noted from Andy) 13:46, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Andy describes an invasion of Zhen during the 1100s

how do you feel about the epyreans invading zhen in the 1100s? the iosilian empire specifically(Pikabo: I agreed from this point onwards). Hanectores of Knosios was one of the greatest conquerors of Iteria, he cut a path of bloodshed through Skanda and Takashima, up through Iraelia and even into Astragon, and eastwards into Rafhazan and Zhen--Pikabo (noted from Andy) 13:43, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Andy briefly describes Zhen cuisine

in that case i’m gonna generally assume ascalonian food as being cuban and zhen food as being the more cantonese one--Pikabo (noted from Andy) 14:05, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Astragonese name for Zhen

Zhen: Zhesha--Pikabo (noted from Tim) 14:10, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

"The Neon Coast", "Stone Coast" (?)

The Neon Coast: Ascalon, Skanda & Zhen// The Stone Coast: Iraelia, Rafhazan & Astragon (Pikabo: Incoming background info).// "known as the Neon Dragons, Skanda, Ascalon and Zhen represent the Sinnitic cultures of Southern Iteria. The name Neon comes from the growing urbanisation that occurred in the 20th century, a visitor to Dazhou or Saito would be greeted by vast sea of clean and modern spires and the reflective glow of a million signs and lights below." - Astragonese Tourists Handbook 1994 Edition--Pikabo (noted from Tim; similar to a description by Pry) 14:16, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Zhen Legal System (and Goyanean inspiration for Zhenmen)

The Zhen's brothers in Ascalon use a Goyanean-inherited common law system. As such there are sprinklings of Nordic traditional law in it.--Pikabo (noted from Goy) 14:20, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

The Zhen do not use Case Law in their legal systems, they use civil law. They rely on written statutes and other legal codes than they do case precedents if at all. The Zhen also only use Juries for criminal cases. they use a bench of three judges for all cases. For Zhen the Laws and policies are all they need. Based on the facts and evidence, case by case. there is no reason to 'set the murderer free' just because a similar case happened already--Pikabo (noted from Zhen) 14:20, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Rejected ideas

Idea 1

I've decided to make Zhen a narco state. Details in the worldbuilding channel.

A hermit kingdom, the Zhen Empire depends on the black market, particularly the export of illegal drugs, to finance the Imperial Court and its conscripted military, mostly thugs led by local crime lords, along with several foreign private armies, to patrol the territory and keep citizens in line, to prevent people from leaving the country and keep out unwanted attention. Emperor Yuan and most of the elder courtiers have been quartered in the Imperial Palace while his son, Crown Prince Meng, rules as Regent. After years of isolationist policies, Meng led a coup in 2010 against his father with foreign-educated liberals in the Imperial Court and younger officers of the military. He promised to open the country to the world and pass much-needed reforms, but he turned back on his promises and turned against them. Meng turned the Zhen Empire into a playground for many criminal personalities around the world, conducting most of their illicit trade in Zhen, and recruited some of them to serve him in the Imperial Court. Meng’s sister, Princess Shi, educated in [SOME PROSPEROUS LIBERAL COUNTRY] (I’m sad Lawston can’t be that country), is determined to bring Zhen out of its failed state, but without much real power other than her occasional responsibilities overseas, she’s aware she can’t do any real change. She tries to influence his brother to change his ways, but Meng, like their father did, he always sends her away at the earliest opportunity.

Idea 2

I've got an idea now for the Zhen Empire: A little background as historical precedent...Lawston has had a little but significant history in the expansionist front. Lawston's panhandle (Which Syrixia was supposed to take for Lawston) had to be taken by Lawston to prevent the threat of a rogue and aggressive breakaway state and (mostly) protect economic interests in the region. The Zhen Empire could be a victim of Lawstonian neocolonialism, like how the Philippines is a victim of Chinese/American/Western/First World neocolonialism.

Apart from neocolonialism, which I realize is just part of a bigger problem, here is what else I plan for Zhen: It wouldn't be completely a failed state, but the circumstances would strongly indicate it is set in a collision course. I'm talking about brain drain, unequal economic development, the lack of human rights, the inept nature of the rule of law, all built around a decadent aristocracy protected by a decaying police state.