Talk:Zhen

"Pre-imperial Zhen"

Don't forget to write bits about Zhen's interaction with Alnaria, Bashime, Tameria, and Rafhazan.

"Empire of Dazhou"

Removed "the semi-agricultural and semi-pastoral people of."

In Ascalonian reference to "dynasty" and "family" in the imperial context

also some things of note, when referring to a dynasty as a family, you use 朝 (chao), but when referring to a dynasty as a time era, you use 代 (dai). so the Tian dynasty family would be the 天朝, or tian chao, while the era of the tian dynasty would be the 天代 or tian dai. --Pikabo (noted from Goy) 10:43, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Origins of the Sima Jin clan

Hmm. Mind if this Zhen family originated from the south? (I understand it is in the northern coastal region) The name doesn't sound particularly Caoyan (Mongolian). Perhaps they were disgruntled by the order of things in Ascalon. Maybe owing to unreturned favors for the new rulers. --Pikabo (talk) 10:45, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Syrixian rule of Zhen

So it was around the same time Goyanes took over Ascalon. The Zhen, a prominent aristocratic family in the fertile northern coastal regions, united the area through rapid Bismarckian politics and by treaty due to wariness over the Goyanean takeover in the south and declared the Zhen Empire. The Syrixians pressed themselves on the Zhen to counteract Goyanean influence in the region, creating an alliance that would morph into a tributary/client state relationship. The Syrixians helped the Zhen subjugate the Caoyan peoples in the northwestern steppes and set up the southeastern islands under the Empire's direct rule, as a trading post. The southeastern islands rapidly grew in importance due to this, and thus, following the 2nd NI War, Goyanes seized the islands. Due to this, the Zhen, whilst formally retaining their tributary/client relationship with Syrixia, de facto began to fall away from said relationship, gaining de facto independence after the State Reform Acts of 1870-71 and de jure independence at the eve of the Fascist Wars, which the Zhen did not wish to fight in. Since the end of the war, iirc, Zhen-Syrixian relations were becoming more active again, until Prince Meng took over, after which Pataliputra sided with Princess Shi and her State of Zhenmen. --Pikabo (noted from Syr) 10:46, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Skandan calendar

@space andy (An/Sk/YC) Do Skandans have their own calendar?

space andy (An/Sk/YC)Today at 12:08 PM yes, actually, but it's not in use in modern skanda i should say it's not officially in use the skandan zodiac still uses it and it's often used in history books too alongside the normal dates there's been a small push to start using it again but it's not a popular movement Turtle Manta Owl Shark Snow Leopard Rat Dog Dragonfly Eel Pig/Boar Rooster Snake Dragon Elephant Tiger Water Buffalo Sea Lion Crocodile Crane/Heron Komodo (Dragon) Bat Crab Whale Fox Monkey Red Panda Spider Frog all 28 skandan zodiac animals it's the 97th cycle of the zodiac, which puts it's first usage at 696 BC if you wanna be precise it's the year of the snow leopard right now or 2716 in other words--Pikabo (noted from conversation with Andy) 04:16, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Other cities in the Road of Silver

• Mita, Bashime
• Menhe Hailasse

Pre-Pikabo canon of Zhen

Skandan kingdom and divine right

the only skandan dynasty to have an english title equivalent to “empire” was the later ishiyama dynasty(edited) even kamaheo is only referred to as a kingdom the heavenly part comes from the divine rights of the kōʻi, who was believed to be a demigod in most if not all cases(edited) the ishiya “empire” was only one in name, as the “emperor” (tenkō’i) had no real power and was a political move made by matsukea ishiyama to attain divine right, since he came from a lowborn background and no one would believe him if he said he was a demigod(edited) though it’s based on the mandate of heaven it’s a bit different --Pikabo (noted from Andy) 03:51, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

1200s Caoyan invasion of Skanda

also i worked it out with norsia forever ago but i think the caoyan tried invading skanda in the... 1300s? i remember having just watched mulan when i asked him about it i would think it could be an attempt to capitalize on a still weakened skanda

Mr. Pikabo (Lawston/Zhen)Today at 11:45 AM The Uulyn installed a puppet dynasty (Hatsukari) to govern the land but still nominally controlled Skanda. This occupation lasted only about a century and a half until the Skandans revolted during a period of Maru weakness, and drove out the remnants of the Uulyn. This of course led to another power vacuum, and the Ishiyama Dynasty quickly took advantage of this by sacking Kuhena. The Ishiyama Dynasty would become one of the most famous Skandan dynasties, prospering well into the 1400s before their collapse from the inside.

you referring to this^?

space andy (An/Sk/YC)Today at 11:46 AM yep and this was about the 1200s not the 1300s my bad --Pikabo (noted from conversation with Andy) 03:51, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

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Nors's descriptions of Zhen

• Fushui is the Zhen Capital located on the southwestern coast and its municipal heart is further inland.// Its underground transit systems are the most favored way to travel for the Zhen, but it is also the most packed on any day of the week, it is genuinely impossible not to bump at least one shoulder on the trains.--Pikabo (noted from Nors) 14:13, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
• The Zhen Empire is small and populous, due to space constraints their cities have become DENSE.--Pikabo (noted from Nors) 14:22, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
• 草岩 Cǎo yán. 震 Zhèn (Kind of sounds like chin | Pikabo: Goy corrects Nors that the character here used actually means "to shake" or "convulse"). and yeah, that's right. the Zhen/Caoyan use Traditional--Pikabo (noted from Nors) 14:25, 9 August 2020 (UTC)// simplified, which ascalon uses, could be a result of a Goyanean government program to increase literacy (Pikabo: Zhenmen probably does the same?)--Pikabo (noted from Goy) 14:25, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
• the Caoyan always had a pretty big population even back then when they were a bunch of raiding hordes. They have been pretty sexually free. when the new ways came in and made the old give in their population exploded. they are the majority population in Zhen by 68%--Pikabo (noted from Nors) 14:27, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
• (Pikabo: For future use) also for sake of ease I'm going to refer to Zhen before they were Zhen as Ascyan--Pikabo (noted from Nors) 14:28, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

History of Zhen after Dazhou fell

so after Dazhou fell the combined history kinda ends until the 2nd NI war, where Goyanes seized the islands off the coast of Zhen in 1825, but they were returned when Zhen gained independence--Pikabo (noted from Goy) 10:48, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

History of Zhen under Dazhou

ah so like before Nors gave up Zhen, Zhen was part of the Dazhou empire until it's collapse. at which point it was colonized by Syrixia(?) idk if that's still a thing--Pikabo (noted from Goy) 10:51, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Origins of the Iziku people

the iziku migrated from ascalon and zhen into the northern akitu mountains, ie takashima. and from there, south into the valley of dragons (skanda proper). the iziku weren’t takashimans though. the takashimans and iziku split off from a common ancestor, the seifirians (as they’re called in non-iterian literature). the takashimans stayed in the northern akitus, the iziku left--Pikabo (noted from Andy) 10:54, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Origins of the Sinnitic people

sinnitics as a whole are native to that region. ie skandans, ascalonians, takashimans, zhen, etc, they all originated there and spread out through iteria in the years after. at one point i had said sinnitics are from out in the far east off-map but that was before we had mapped out the off-map so now i'm gonna say they're actually just native to iteria. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ i can't imagine any sinnitic nations/their players have an issue with this but if they do ping me--Pikabo (noted from Andy) 10:57, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Suchari name for Zhen

Maidha - greater Ascalonian region (often refers to the Zhen Empire)--Pikabo (noted from Syr; clarify if this is the same as the Suchari name in Zhen's IIWiki) 11:32, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Skandan name for Zhen

ㅘきたこさ위ゆ/Akitakosaiyu = Zhen "Land of Dragons in the North" (Pikabo: Incoming possible background info). The Skandan word for dragon is kosua and the ancient name of Kuheʻnai is actually Kuheʻoʻnaiʻkosua, or City of Dragons. it was named that because Ascalon is right next door and Skandans believed a lot of dragons lived in the Eastern Akitus that border that region and that eastern region of Ascalon and Zhen itself--Pikabo (noted from Skanda) 11:37, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Syrixian Empire as described between the 19th and 20th centuries

Even still, though the Empire recovered economically, administration began to be more and more strained as, during the late 19th century, nationalist identities began to emerge By the turn of the 20th century, the Zhen were de facto independent; the trade possessions in the SY were long gone, as was the Vestrugat; Predice and Yamantau had been given independence; and most of Demescia had been ceded to the newly independent Demescian state except for Hetacia proper.--Pikabo (noted from Syr) 13:35, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Loz describes a war that happens from 1704 to 1706

The Host of Valarun sweeps south and routes the Syrixian invaders who remain pushing them back into Zhen.--Pikabo (noted from Loz) 13:37, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Andy describes a Yuki RP nation's infiltration of Skandan waters

so a few years ago (Pikabo: 2010-ish following this discussion) when yukkira was where you are now they sent ships into skandan waters. skanda responded with a show of force and sent their navy to confront them. it led to a tense standoff while their politicians negotiated. skanda came out on top, yukkira withdrew, skanda got to scuttle a few of their vessels for symbolic victory. and yukkira was ejected from the iterian league.--Pikabo (noted from Andy) 13:46, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Andy describes an invasion of Zhen during the 1100s

how do you feel about the epyreans invading zhen in the 1100s? the iosilian empire specifically(Pikabo: I agreed from this point onwards). Hanectores of Knosios was one of the greatest conquerors of Iteria, he cut a path of bloodshed through Skanda and Takashima, up through Iraelia and even into Astragon, and eastwards into Rafhazan and Zhen--Pikabo (noted from Andy) 13:43, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Andy briefly describes Zhen cuisine

in that case i’m gonna generally assume ascalonian food as being cuban and zhen food as being the more cantonese one--Pikabo (noted from Andy) 14:05, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Astragonese name for Zhen

Zhen: Zhesha--Pikabo (noted from Tim) 14:10, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

"The Neon Coast", "Stone Coast" (?)

The Neon Coast: Ascalon, Skanda & Zhen// The Stone Coast: Iraelia, Rafhazan & Astragon (Pikabo: Incoming background info).// "known as the Neon Dragons, Skanda, Ascalon and Zhen represent the Sinnitic cultures of Southern Iteria. The name Neon comes from the growing urbanisation that occurred in the 20th century, a visitor to Dazhou or Saito would be greeted by vast sea of clean and modern spires and the reflective glow of a million signs and lights below." - Astragonese Tourists Handbook 1994 Edition--Pikabo (noted from Tim; similar to a description by Pry) 14:16, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Zhen Legal System (and Goyanean inspiration for Zhenmen)

The Zhen's brothers in Ascalon use a Goyanean-inherited common law system. As such there are sprinklings of Nordic traditional law in it.--Pikabo (noted from Goy) 14:20, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

The Zhen do not use Case Law in their legal systems, they use civil law. They rely on written statutes and other legal codes than they do case precedents if at all. The Zhen also only use Juries for criminal cases. they use a bench of three judges for all cases. For Zhen the Laws and policies are all they need. Based on the facts and evidence, case by case. there is no reason to 'set the murderer free' just because a similar case happened already--Pikabo (noted from Zhen) 14:20, 9 August 2020 (UTC)